Hello - just saw a comment you left at Sipsey Street. Please let me explain the reason for a rather widespread bit of animus toward atheists. Obviously I cannot speak for everyone but I have been around for a lot of years and this is my observation. In most cases, people do not dislike or despise atheists because of what they do or do not believe. Most people couldn't care less if another person worships a rock, or a mirror, or nothing at all. The problem is a severe disparity of tolerance. No Christians or Jews whom I know, want to get a court to order you to worship our God; no one wants to prevent you or anyone else from carrying banners or posting signs proclaiming your views. Note that when atheists put up billboards, Christians do not try to bully them with court orders to stop them. This is what I call tolerance. But on the other hand, groups of atheists have, for years, used the bullying tactics of lawsuits and endless litigation to try to silence Christians and Jews from publicly displaying their symbols, quoting Scripture in public forums, or otherwise letting their own beliefs be known without shame or reluctance. There is much more but I have little online time, being needed to stay with a loved on in the hospital, but that is it in a nutshell. Having had very civil discussions in the past with Christopher Hitchens, I know that people can indeed get along - but Mr. Hitchens never made an effort to prevent others from expressing their beliefs. Wishing you all the best-
thank you. having been a Christian for several years, then a "Moonie" for several years more, I've been on the blunt end of religious intolerance myself and have no desire to inflict it on anyone else. I believe I would recoil at having to, say, listen to a prayer at a city hall meeting (because I recoil at order to pledge allegiance), but if it were a fellow citizen and not someone from the city government itself reciting the prayer I could walk out quietly or just sit with my mouth shut. I can see that at least you understand that since atheism (or antitheism in my case) is a personal decision, a "group" of such people doing something wrong cannot logically be an indictment against any other individual or group with a similar axiom. I would hope most 3 percenters have the same level of understanding. it would be a shame to die at the hands of my allies before I get a chance to serve the cause of freedom -- jc
Well - I think that IF indeed the S ever HTF, we will all know which side of the lines we are on; and I never knew anyone in a hot zone who took the time for theological or philosophical discussions when a group of people were making obvious machinations to terminate the lives of the recipients of their ammunition. Over the years, have had the same discussion with people based on their general overview of homosexuals; as Oleg Volk said ( to paraphrase) after we have all stopped our common aggressors from putting us into mass graves or death camps, we can all sit around a table with steaming coffee or the beverage of our choice and iron out our differences like human beings, but if we quibble enough amongst ourselves too long, then our differences will matter not one whit as we are bulldozed into yawning pits. Be well.
sounds like a plan. still not 100% sure I'm going to stay and fight if I can find freedom elsewhere, but in that case I'm well aware I won't be welcome to return.
Interesting to find you at Sipseystreet. I was a moonie from 1972 till 1990 and then left to follow Jesus ever since. Have fellowshiped some but had to separate from that and won't follow any man again. The early Quakers had a profound understanding and leading, taking the scripture in John literally where Jesus says "My sheep hear my voice and I know them and they follow me." The early Quakers including Fox, Penn and many others followed Jesus to that perfection which moon only talked about but never lived. Even his daughter and daughter-in-law saw that and exposed the hypocrisy of the so-called "sinless" family. You might find this site with early Quaker writings interesting www.hallvworthington.com You can reach me at grantmeliberty at gmail.com Grant
hey Grant! interesting but not altogether surprising. people like us are determined to save the world, and are always looking for the right ways to do it. if you believe in some form of "reincarnation", perhaps we both participated in the 1770s as well -- jc
Not so much into reincarnation as believing Hebrews 11 and 12, that we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses... perhaps whispering good counsel in our ears, that we may follow that course towards perfection which benefits them as it benefits us. Those gentle voices, of God, His angels, and the saints who have preceded us, urging us towards that higher and better life.
hi - not online much lately, my wife in a coma, and she is the only reason I ever cared to live. So spend most time with her, knowing that soon I won't be able to. But I did get online and saw your offer to help Mike V with a Paypal button, so had to commend you for your kindness. May all be well with you and those you love. And if I may wax sentimental, if you do have a special loved one, please never take for granted, even one mundane moment with that person, but treasure it. You never know. Make every second count.
Hello -
ReplyDeletejust saw a comment you left at Sipsey Street. Please let me explain the reason for a rather widespread bit of animus toward atheists. Obviously I cannot speak for everyone but I have been around for a lot of years and this is my observation.
In most cases, people do not dislike or despise atheists because of what they do or do not believe. Most people couldn't care less if another person worships a rock, or a mirror, or nothing at all. The problem is a severe disparity of tolerance. No Christians or Jews whom I know, want to get a court to order you to worship our God; no one wants to prevent you or anyone else from carrying banners or posting signs proclaiming your views. Note that when atheists put up billboards, Christians do not try to bully them with court orders to stop them. This is what I call tolerance.
But on the other hand, groups of atheists have, for years, used the bullying tactics of lawsuits and endless litigation to try to silence Christians and Jews from publicly displaying their symbols, quoting Scripture in public forums, or otherwise letting their own beliefs be known without shame or reluctance. There is much more but I have little online time, being needed to stay with a loved on in the hospital, but that is it in a nutshell.
Having had very civil discussions in the past with Christopher Hitchens, I know that people can indeed get along - but Mr. Hitchens never made an effort to prevent others from expressing their beliefs.
Wishing you all the best-
thank you. having been a Christian for several years, then a "Moonie" for several years more, I've been on the blunt end of religious intolerance myself and have no desire to inflict it on anyone else. I believe I would recoil at having to, say, listen to a prayer at a city hall meeting (because I recoil at order to pledge allegiance), but if it were a fellow citizen and not someone from the city government itself reciting the prayer I could walk out quietly or just sit with my mouth shut. I can see that at least you understand that since atheism (or antitheism in my case) is a personal decision, a "group" of such people doing something wrong cannot logically be an indictment against any other individual or group with a similar axiom. I would hope most 3 percenters have the same level of understanding. it would be a shame to die at the hands of my allies before I get a chance to serve the cause of freedom -- jc
ReplyDeleteWell - I think that IF indeed the S ever HTF, we will all know which side of the lines we are on; and I never knew anyone in a hot zone who took the time for theological or philosophical discussions when a group of people were making obvious machinations to terminate the lives of the recipients of their ammunition. Over the years, have had the same discussion with people based on their general overview of homosexuals; as Oleg Volk said ( to paraphrase) after we have all stopped our common aggressors from putting us into mass graves or death camps, we can all sit around a table with steaming coffee or the beverage of our choice and iron out our differences like human beings, but if we quibble enough amongst ourselves too long, then our differences will matter not one whit as we are bulldozed into yawning pits.
ReplyDeleteBe well.
sounds like a plan. still not 100% sure I'm going to stay and fight if I can find freedom elsewhere, but in that case I'm well aware I won't be welcome to return.
ReplyDeleteInteresting to find you at Sipseystreet. I was a moonie from 1972 till 1990 and then left to follow Jesus ever since. Have fellowshiped some but had to separate from that and won't follow any man again. The early Quakers had a profound understanding and leading, taking the scripture in John literally where Jesus says "My sheep hear my voice and I know them and they follow me." The early Quakers including Fox, Penn and many others followed Jesus to that perfection which moon only talked about but never lived. Even his daughter and daughter-in-law saw that and exposed the hypocrisy of the so-called "sinless" family.
ReplyDeleteYou might find this site with early Quaker writings interesting www.hallvworthington.com
You can reach me at grantmeliberty at gmail.com
Grant
hey Grant! interesting but not altogether surprising. people like us are determined to save the world, and are always looking for the right ways to do it. if you believe in some form of "reincarnation", perhaps we both participated in the 1770s as well -- jc
ReplyDeleteNot so much into reincarnation as believing Hebrews 11 and 12, that we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses... perhaps whispering good counsel in our ears, that we may follow that course towards perfection which benefits them as it benefits us. Those gentle voices, of God, His angels, and the saints who have preceded us, urging us towards that higher and better life.
ReplyDeletehi -
ReplyDeletenot online much lately, my wife in a coma, and she is the only reason I ever cared to live. So spend most time with her, knowing that soon I won't be able to. But I did get online and saw your offer to help Mike V with a Paypal button, so had to commend you for your kindness. May all be well with you and those you love. And if I may wax sentimental, if you do have a special loved one, please never take for granted, even one mundane moment with that person, but treasure it. You never know. Make every second count.
thanks for the advice j3maccabee, it is something I've followed for years and intend to continue doing.
ReplyDelete